wall street
i played at wall street last night, and did pretty well. one play will not leave my mind however, it was a pot where i laid down pocket As, and its festering is one reason why i have trouble mixing friends and poker. i also boldly told one player i thought he played annoyingly slow, although he was so endearing about it that i actually felt bad after. :) i'll try to start at the beginning, but my memories may already be fuzzy.
first tournament: there were only 8 of us, and while we were zipping through blind levels, nobody was going out! everyone seemed to be playing fairly tight. i won my first hand w/ 66 when i took a couple stabs and got called despite overs, however b (i guess i'll call him b) had a lower pair than mine. then i remember calling when we were down to 4 w/ 53s, flopping bottom pair, jamming on am who called me w/ middle pair. she turned trips, and i was crippled. somehow through some well timed cards i stayed alive, jamie busted on bubble, and i made it to the money. three handed, i would love to hear thoughts, cause i thought this was a crazy (bad) lay down, and did not understand the explanations given. i'm three handed w/ pp and am. we play a few orbits, pp is short stack, i am medium and i'm pretty sure am is biggest stack, although we're probably around even. so pp goes all in on the button. i think he's maybe made this play once before and not shown down, but otherwise he hasn't been crazy aggro (which for some reason people have the impression i am????). so am goes into the tank and eventually folds from sb, this is maybe for half her stack, giving her huge lead going into hu.
i look down at A5o and practically instacall. i know there's a chance i'm dominated, but three handed i figure my A high has (hopefully) at least a shot, as pp could be doing that w/ just about anything. he flips over JTo and we're essentially racing. i'm about 55 percent, i hit a 5 on the turn, and pp is out in third. here's the thing: am showed her cards after i called, and she folded AJ!?! i don't understand how she doesn't call there. she has a chance to take out a player, we're THREE HANDED, and AJ is a monster. not that she can know she has him dominated (about 70/30), but i was/am confounded by her fold. the way it was explained to me was that she wanted to secure second place and go into hu, but that makes no sense to me. i get that if she calls and loses she is definitely the short stack, but how do you not take that chance w/ AJ three handed?
am and i briefly discussed a chop, but we decided not to and i won the hu match. then it was time for tournament 2.
it was the first hand of tournament 2 that really frustrated me. i look down at AA with one limper, blinds 25/50, and raise to 200. i guess this was my first mistake. didn't raise enough. i get either 5 or 6 callers (this tournament is 11 handed) and we see a flop of K56 w/ two spades. i bet out half the pot, b calls, and w thinks and talks and then jams. is my half pot bet a mistake here? should i be betting pot? am i begging someone to take the pot away? i have no idea what to do. i put b on AK, KQ or KJ, and am not worried about him. i am worried about w. she could easily have a set or 56, in which case i'm praying for a running pair or A. or she could be on flush draw, in which case i think we're about even money. i think if i have A of spades MAYBE i make call, but i laid down my hand. she also could have had nothing, and was maybe doing that w/ a pair of Js or Ts, just trying to pick up pot. but either way i still want to know what she had.
i know there are no friends at poker table blah blah, but i basically outlined my tournament strategy for her and am in ac one time when we were there, and w even came back the next day and said she was doing some things differently and it was really working out for her. so i guess i feel like after putting some of my shit out there it would be nice for w to share one hand after the fact.
i was told by others i needed to forget about it, since i ended up in the money anyway. i had a really nice stack despite losing massive chips in that AA hand when a few hands later i limped w/ 44, pp min raised, and three of us saw flop with a 4 in it. all the money went in on turn, pp turned over JJ and river was no help to him. i made a HUGE mistake when i re-raised in middle position a min raiser w/ JJ, there was one caller, and then w jammed. i nearly instacalled, which was horrible, and b (who called) also called. w has KK, b has AJ and td, who had gone all in for very short stack had A4. of course an A came, w was crippled, i was down to just under the starting stack, and b had massive stack. ebs, sitting next to me, was kind enough to tell me how bad my call was w/ JJ, and of course it's probably not surprising to anyone reading that i overplayed a medium pocket pair. when w goes all in she is showing strength, and since there's a caller all in i'm going to see her cards.
who knows, maybe i was still steaming from my earlier play w/ her, although i don't think so. anyway, b and i get heads up, but i can't beat the darko when he turns a straight w/ it, and i get all my money in drawing dead. niiiiiice. so first in first tournament and second in second. not bad results, but i know i made a few bad plays in there.
first tournament: there were only 8 of us, and while we were zipping through blind levels, nobody was going out! everyone seemed to be playing fairly tight. i won my first hand w/ 66 when i took a couple stabs and got called despite overs, however b (i guess i'll call him b) had a lower pair than mine. then i remember calling when we were down to 4 w/ 53s, flopping bottom pair, jamming on am who called me w/ middle pair. she turned trips, and i was crippled. somehow through some well timed cards i stayed alive, jamie busted on bubble, and i made it to the money. three handed, i would love to hear thoughts, cause i thought this was a crazy (bad) lay down, and did not understand the explanations given. i'm three handed w/ pp and am. we play a few orbits, pp is short stack, i am medium and i'm pretty sure am is biggest stack, although we're probably around even. so pp goes all in on the button. i think he's maybe made this play once before and not shown down, but otherwise he hasn't been crazy aggro (which for some reason people have the impression i am????). so am goes into the tank and eventually folds from sb, this is maybe for half her stack, giving her huge lead going into hu.
i look down at A5o and practically instacall. i know there's a chance i'm dominated, but three handed i figure my A high has (hopefully) at least a shot, as pp could be doing that w/ just about anything. he flips over JTo and we're essentially racing. i'm about 55 percent, i hit a 5 on the turn, and pp is out in third. here's the thing: am showed her cards after i called, and she folded AJ!?! i don't understand how she doesn't call there. she has a chance to take out a player, we're THREE HANDED, and AJ is a monster. not that she can know she has him dominated (about 70/30), but i was/am confounded by her fold. the way it was explained to me was that she wanted to secure second place and go into hu, but that makes no sense to me. i get that if she calls and loses she is definitely the short stack, but how do you not take that chance w/ AJ three handed?
am and i briefly discussed a chop, but we decided not to and i won the hu match. then it was time for tournament 2.
it was the first hand of tournament 2 that really frustrated me. i look down at AA with one limper, blinds 25/50, and raise to 200. i guess this was my first mistake. didn't raise enough. i get either 5 or 6 callers (this tournament is 11 handed) and we see a flop of K56 w/ two spades. i bet out half the pot, b calls, and w thinks and talks and then jams. is my half pot bet a mistake here? should i be betting pot? am i begging someone to take the pot away? i have no idea what to do. i put b on AK, KQ or KJ, and am not worried about him. i am worried about w. she could easily have a set or 56, in which case i'm praying for a running pair or A. or she could be on flush draw, in which case i think we're about even money. i think if i have A of spades MAYBE i make call, but i laid down my hand. she also could have had nothing, and was maybe doing that w/ a pair of Js or Ts, just trying to pick up pot. but either way i still want to know what she had.
i know there are no friends at poker table blah blah, but i basically outlined my tournament strategy for her and am in ac one time when we were there, and w even came back the next day and said she was doing some things differently and it was really working out for her. so i guess i feel like after putting some of my shit out there it would be nice for w to share one hand after the fact.
i was told by others i needed to forget about it, since i ended up in the money anyway. i had a really nice stack despite losing massive chips in that AA hand when a few hands later i limped w/ 44, pp min raised, and three of us saw flop with a 4 in it. all the money went in on turn, pp turned over JJ and river was no help to him. i made a HUGE mistake when i re-raised in middle position a min raiser w/ JJ, there was one caller, and then w jammed. i nearly instacalled, which was horrible, and b (who called) also called. w has KK, b has AJ and td, who had gone all in for very short stack had A4. of course an A came, w was crippled, i was down to just under the starting stack, and b had massive stack. ebs, sitting next to me, was kind enough to tell me how bad my call was w/ JJ, and of course it's probably not surprising to anyone reading that i overplayed a medium pocket pair. when w goes all in she is showing strength, and since there's a caller all in i'm going to see her cards.
who knows, maybe i was still steaming from my earlier play w/ her, although i don't think so. anyway, b and i get heads up, but i can't beat the darko when he turns a straight w/ it, and i get all my money in drawing dead. niiiiiice. so first in first tournament and second in second. not bad results, but i know i made a few bad plays in there.
posted by lj at 10:20 AM
15 Comments:
My new mantra: "It's not my job." Just because I'm in the small blind with a good hand doesn't mean that I have to gamble with it in order to try to take out a smaller stack. Someone else can take that risk. I'd rather have the opportunity to be the aggressor with the cards and position of my choice.
AJ sucks and it's probably a hand to call but maybe she is worried about you coming over the top with some raggedy hand that sucks out on her? ;)
I think you got bluffed off AA but I see laying down hands as progress in your game since you have a tendency to call too much. And you got in the money so no sense worrying about it.
When did you turn into such a tilt monkey though LJ?
PPPHHHFFFFTTTT!! I'm still steaming over losing a fracking amount of chips to you when you made me fold a damn good hand in the MATH.
Just remember, poker is a game. A game with lots of short term luck that you cannot control. Low buy-in tournaments are the worst because the structure is bad and the players are worse. You can't get mad at them though because most do not know what they are doing. I can liken these tournaments to mookies, riverchasers, even math. I used to get very mad at most of the players in there. It dawned on me a couple weeks ago that 90% of them just can't play poker and they are just trying to have fun. All you can do is make the best poker decisions you can and pray to poker jebus. Don't let them ruin your day :)
Folding the AJ is playing scared, not playing to win. And she didn't. 3-handed, the SB is two off the button, so it's hardly a question of position, especially if you're the big stack.
Not that I disagree with Don about AJ sucking.
Tough laydown with the AA. Could have been a bluff, but even if it was, it was the first hand of the tournament, why risk it all post-flop? If you had a solid read on the player, maybe it's a different story.
You have to stop tilting whenever you think someone is using "inside" information against you.
No friends at the poker table is about as literal as it gets. If I told you I loved to shove with darko pre-flop heads-up and we found ourselves competeing for the Aussie seat, would you ignore that information? I seriously hope not. In fact, knowing that I told you that, I would purposelfully NOT play it that way against you.
Poker is all about adapting your play to the situation at hand, and that includes what has transpired beyond the table itself. Use every piece of information you have to your advantage, because your opponents certainly will. Plus, they're under no obligation to give you ANYTHING just because you've been generous with the information.
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I call bullshit, I've never seen you lay down an overpair :)
Two points to make for today:
1. You need to do something (seriously) about your play of middle pairs. So far I see you officially acknowledging the problem again and again and again, but then also continuing to play those hands exactly the same way. Was it Bayne or someone else who posted Einstein's famous quote that insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results. I know you know you have a pocket pairs problem. So you should already have really formulated a plan and be executing it. I'm troubled by your seemingly almost daily losses in tournaments with middle pairs. And it does not seem like you to keep making the same mistake in poker and not doing anything about it. I remember you had that bad case of the "really?"s for a while several months back, but you seem to have taken care of that and your game has seen many positive results since that time. What gives with the middle pairs?
1a. Ironically, you won't lay down a middle pair to action that has you likely behind, but you will lay down AA against a single raise on a K65 flop with two of a suit? I'm with Don 100% there, I think you probably folded the winner (personally I doubt that flop raise was a "bluff", but would not be surprised at all if it was just a big draw, a top pair with a draw or just some top pair kind of hand in general).
2. Based on my limited experience with you, I don't think you really believe the cleary true idea of there being "no friends at the poker table" or whatever. But you need to accept its truth. Your friend owes you nothing just because you shared some strategy with him or her. You're not going to be in the right if you get angry at someone for making a play at you at the table right after having just discussed how one shouldn't make plays like that with the person earlier that day or whatever. You seem to take it very personally when someone you know beats down on you at the table -- whether by skill or luck, for that matter -- and I really hope you keep working on getting rid of that mentality. Look at how much happiness agreeing to play at the same table with Bayne has brought you over the past couple of months, right? Haha. Seriously though, stop being annoyed at your friends when they win money from you and stop expecting them to play differently or that they somehow owe you anything based on a previous conversation you might have had or some information you might have willingly decided to share with them in the past. Not that you don't already understand and agree with this, but I think that owning your own actions at the poker table is the only way to truly get great at this game.
I hadn't been able to read many blogs for the past few days but there was lots of great stuff to catch up on here today.
I pwned you with A-10.
hoy, thx for comment. you are right on both counts, i am still making same mistakes w/ middle pairs, and i am horrible at no friends at poker table. all i can do is try and do better. and avoid friends at poker table. :)
Hoy,
1) It was Don that posted the Einstein quote recently.
2) Thanks a lot for bringing up: "Look at how much happiness agreeing to play at the same table with Bayne has brought you over the past couple of months, right? Haha." I already have a wife and a daughter that can get miffed at me for past incidents I've long moved past. Do you really need to incite female bloggers as well?
Bayne - we (female bloggers) don't really like you. We just like to make fun of you and your Ruckboxery.
Back to regularly scheduled worktime.
LJ,
Don't subscribe to the "no friends at the poker table theory". At least not in my home game. The Wall Street League (Patent pending) encourages learning. We routinely give away advice, secrets, tells, etc... You know why? Because we're not after our friends. We're after the big money when we go to the Borgata. If you angle-shoot your buddies at a $30 buyin tourney or in a $100 max buyin cash game, you are *pathetic*. I suggest people who subscribe to screwing their friends for a $45 pot get a second job, because they clearly need the money. I would prefer keeping it light hearted, because the comraderie and joy of the game is worth more than the few dollars we'll win or lose at my table.
1. Nice (tough) laydown of the Aces, but I think wrong in that spot. I read Jamie's comment as well as his recent post and I agree that the WSG should encourage learning. Maybe you guys should take 15 minutes off after a tourney to discuss some hands. That would be a great forum for learning. I might incorporate that in my own home games from now on.
2. The JJ hand is a tough one and I probably lay it down to all that action.
3. With AJ in the SB I don't call in that spot. I JAM!!! If ab is worried about you going over the top then she should show strength and JAM!!!
I'm a big fan of the friends at the poker table mentality. I have been hurt by it in the past but if you avoid the game theory mentality of prisoner's dilemma although you may be losing in the short term in small home game enviornments, in the long term your game gets infinitely better...Sharing strategy is huge in a game where there are so many right ways to play and in the rock paper scissors game that is preflop holdem I personally reccomend always sharing with companions but never teaching a strange table. After a year and a half I'm sure your game has changed drastically and will continue to so even "giving away" tips now won't hurt you in the end because again...this is a game of progression, I'll talk strategy anytime and I wasn't needling you against the jj....It wasn't the cards it was the stack sizes...and I'm risk averse...so odds are I fold the winning hand way too often...also the AA from first han perspective seemed like the right lay down the two dimensional version doesn't do it justice...the speech by W seemed like a huge tell of stregnth to me...but I too may have been fooled by the friendly table mentality
THE END
KIT
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